I could see myself running a meuhem pack, or a couple cults, or both even. I like Helcult better personally. Gives the brute a good save provided the attack does not have higher elevation because Cultists kind of blow at obscuring a big target , and makes Cultists Fearless. The Mayhem pack sounds alright, especially automatically getting crazed every turn, but deep striking is still dangerous and they can't assault the turn they do.
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I could see myself running a meuhem pack, or a couple cults, or both even. I like Helcult better personally.
Gives the brute a good save provided the attack does not have higher elevation because Cultists kind of blow at obscuring a big target , and makes Cultists Fearless. The Mayhem pack sounds alright, especially automatically getting crazed every turn, but deep striking is still dangerous and they can't assault the turn they do.
It also doesn't solve the problem that it doesn't take much firepower to destroy an A12 dread. Oddly enough it says in the 3rd formation that the pack leader has the Aura of Dark Majesty special rule which is not a special rule. But naturally we assume it's Dark Glory.
I have it on my iphone and it also says majesty but in the glossary section it only list dark glory so I assumed. Is there any other required info to play? Don't see the need to buy the data slate now as GW have pretty much made FOC and points values redundant now.
Thanks nafka! So like 5 or 50 or more points ontop of what the units cost? Sounds not so great anymore. These formations so far have been free, you just had to run the models they specified. Older apoc formations had extra points tacked on. Jus the basic points, the Mayhem pack would be with no upgrades. They also give you the units and their options. If you don't have the csm book, the dataslate gives the rules and options for the units themselves. Also, the fluff is actually worth a read.
They do a good job of establishing brutes as more than just 'chaos dreads'. And its only 5 bucks. Generally speaking having a copy of the rules is usually considered a requirement to play things. I won't say you have to -buy- a copy as I can't make anyone do anything , just that you need a copy of the rules.
That aside, outside of having enough models, or room to spend the points in your army, there are no extras required to field the Helbrute Formations.
Give it a day or two and someone will put a pdf or torrent up online. Print it out and, bam, no one can complain about you not having a copy of the rules. And you don't have to pay for the dataslate. I fully support paying for codexes and supplements and all the miniatures, but dataslates is pushing it.
Especially when they're just fixing a model that needs new rules to be viable. The Reclusiam Command Squad formation was an extra 25 points on top of the models, none of the other dataslates I've seen however carried an additional points cost.
This dataslate is pretty neat. Guys, how will you use them? Primary detachment as Chaos Space Marine and backed up with these brutes? Or primary detachment as Chaos Daemons and use them? That's the beauty of formations In the latter case I would use the basic load out for the Mayhem pack, maybe give them flamers. I will preface this by saying that I do not have the dataslate yet. But going off of every other formation for 40k games, formations are not considered any sort of detachment.
They are separate entities that do not take up any sort of slot or chart. They are a separate detachment that does not take up a spot on the force org, but the units maintain their FOC designation unless changed by the slate or a codex rule that applies to units outside the primary detachment, ala the ghost warriors slate. Mayhem pack makes Helbrutes usable. Their major problem was lack of being able to get them to where they want to be.
The cult does wonders for them. So it's only the Helfist Murder pack which is a squadron? Deep Striking Helbrutes from the Mayhem pack can shoot at different targets?
Interesting, I could see the Mayhem pack challenge deep striking Terminators with combi-meltas for their role. Deep striking Helbrutes is still a risk.
You're dropping in a walker base with no protection against bad scatter results. They are separate units so that alleviates the difficulty a bit as they can deep strike in solo, but you're still putting points on deep striking a single multi-melta in. It's definitely better than they were before but you still have to have a semi-open place for them to drop into unless you're banking on a hit , hit with the melta, penetrate, and hope it does significant damage to the vehicle.
That's a lot of things that have to work together. Agreed, and of course we're talking about roughly double the points compared to a suicide Terminator squad but double the range of the Melta weapon is nice and can ease the scatter the problem. You could infiltrate him with Huron or Ahriman as warlord and get him into close combat turn 1. Easily kill a model and activate the key. Now everything you are deep striking in lands without scatter.
Because the rule reads, "all friendly units taken from this codex," you could extend the rule to a formation of Helbrutes. It's not the most powerful strategy as the only deep striking units that really benefit from Deep Strike are Helbrutes and Terminators.
But you could bring in Obliterators, Raptors, and Warp Talons this way as well if you wanted to get the whole effect. Seems reasonable for zombies to be used, afterall the are just free upgrades really. Yes zombies can be used, as the zombie rule only requires they be in the 'same army' as typhus, they don't need to be in the same formation.
Helcultists are already fearless, however, so its not quite as meaningful an option as it is otherwise. In some ways the Helcult may be better than the Zombies because they can still shoot -and- have the benefits of being fearless. Zombies have FNP so they are more survivable as can get a save against the successful cover saves.
Which is silly, but that's how they treat it that's why things that deny Feel No Pain rolls mention it specifically, like D-Weapons.
That really depends on the wording in the data slate, and I don't have it so I don't know what it says, but if it's removed with no saves then no FNP. If it's takes a wound with no save then you get FNP. Helcults have made my 5 Helbrutes worthwhile, finally. The brute itself is still so-so, but I am happy to pay the roughly point Helbrute tax to make 2 squads of cultists fearless, cheaper than putting a HQ with them.
I'm thinking filling my 2 required troops with MSU Plague Marines, and then cultists with brutes to fill out my scoring units. My Iron Warriors will love deep striking helbrutes, all shooting at different targets maybe twice or maybe just running around with rage, but it's a free upgrade so what is there to complain about.
I really want to run a 5 helbrute death star and face down my friends' Paladin kill everything squad. Beautiful dataslate. I'm sure I'm gonna come off as a negative nancy here but these data slates are better than the codex rules.. The codex came out over a year ago and people have been complaining that it needed an update because it was too weak.
Now it gets an awesome 5 dollar update and people ask why couldn't this have been in the original codex for free? I for one am extremely happy about it. I can see being peeved by the tyranid ones since they absolutely could have been included in the codex, but this is what dataslates should be! I'm also stoked about any attention chaos gets , I just think it'd be nice if these fancy , creative, and colorful additions were a part of the core book.
Rather than to sell new helbrute models. I honestly think the squadron one is the best. No I will be using all three in my various armies. Cultist one in my word bearers. Three deep strike brutes in my iron warriors and, 5brutes just cause it'll be awesome to see them all. ESP if you take mauler fiends forgefiends and defilers! Allie in a souls grinder and wow heavy walker list is a go!
Done some playing around with hellbrute and crimson slaughter supp. You can fit 10 walkers in a list with 90 scoring fearless troops. Just out of curiosity, there are a lot of A12 walkers in that list, but what exactly can kill air? Someone brings a couple flyers and they'll run train over you. Magic, or just ignoring the air.
Outside of the Heldrake there aren't many fliers that can aim in every direction on the board effortlessly, and less still that can be rated as "must take in a list". They can still do a lot of damage if you have no way of killing them.
Especially ones that have hover mode so they can kill for a few turns and then drop to hover mode to avoid going off the board.
Also FMCs are very dangerous. About all you can do against those with this list his hope the forgefiend or defiler get a hit and ground it. Between this and the crimson slaughter codex, CSM are looking good!! Could you join a character to the squadron?
It would be cool if you could!! We are Live Now and will be updating as the event unfolds right here.
A First Look: Helbrutes Dataslate
Each Helbrute holds a living Heretic Astartes within its plated metal chest -- a Chaos Space Marine driven over the edge of madness by the never-ending cycle of battle that defines the Long War. A Helbrute is piloted by a warrior who, like his Loyalist Dreadnought counterparts, has suffered extreme bodily damage in combat. The critically injured Heretic Astartes is then bound into an amniotic sarcophagus at the combat walker's heart, connected by cybernetic nervous system implants and a Mind Impulse Unit to the controls of the war machine. However, while Loyalist Space Marines of the Adeptus Astartes consider it an honour to serve their Chapter for eternity as a Dreadnought, Chaos Space Marines consider such a fate to be little more than a living death -- a torturous, mocking punishment from the Ruinous Powers.
Confirmation: Dataslate Helbrutes and Contents